00:00:00.4 1 BUREAU OF INDIAN AFFAIRS

00:00:01.6 2 INTERVIEW OF FRITZ ARLO LOOKING CLOUD

00:00:03.1 3 MARCH 27, 2003

00:00:04.6 4 INTERVIEWER:

00:00:06.1 5 ROBERT ECOFFEY, DIRECTOR

00:00:07.6 6 BIA OFFICE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT SERVICES

00:00:09.1 7 and

00:00:10.6 8 DETECTIVE ABE ALONZO

00:00:12.1 9 DENVER POLICE DEPARTMENT

00:00:15.1 10 DET. ALONZO: Year 2003. And the time is

00:00:15.9 11 approximately 2:46 p.m. I am Detective Abe Alonzo with the

00:00:23.5 12 Denver Police Department. And you're in the company of the

00:00:26.9 13 Director of Bureau of Indian Affairs, Mr. Robert Ecoffey.

00:00:30.4 14 LOOKING CLOUD: Okay.

00:00:35.0 15 DET. ALONZO: And we are located in video tape

00:00:37.4 16 interview room B, I believe it is. The interview concerns the

00:00:43.2 17 investigation of Anna Mae Aquash. And this is a homicide

00:00:51.9 18 investigation - that occurred at or in South Dakota on December

00:01:13.6 19 1975. And for a case number, I'm gonna use the warrant number

00:01:21.4 20 that's been issued in regards to this case. And that number

00:01:31.4 21 being 198-47472. And the person being interviewed is Arlo Fritz

00:01:43.7 22 Looking Cloud. And your date of birth, ArIo?

00:01:51.7 23 LOOKING CLOUD: March 25, 1953.

00:01:58.1 24 DET. ALONZO: Do you have a current home address, Arlo?

00:02:00.3 25 LOOKING CLOUD: No, sir.

00:02:07.4 26 DET. ALONZO: And again, I also mentioned earlier,

00:02:09.2 27 present here in this interview room is Mr. Robert Ecoffey,

00:02:17.0 28 Director of Law Enforcement for the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

00:02:20.0 29 And the video operator assisting at this time is Detective Dale

00:02:24.4 30 Monaco. Arlo, before we proceed any further, I want to advise you

00:02:34.3 31 of your rights. Arlo, you're advised that you have the right to

00:03:14.1 32 remain silent. Anything you say can be used against you in a

00:03:18.8 33 court of law. You have a right to talk to a lawyer before

00:03:22.3 34 questioning, and have him present during questioning. If you

00:03:27.4 35 cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed for you without

00:03:30.8 36 cost to you before questioning. Do you understand each of these

00:03:34.0 37 rights I've read to you, sir?

00:03:35.4 38 LOOKING CLOUD: Yes.

00:03:42.1 39 DET. ALONZO: If you understand your rights, Arlo,could you

00:03:43.8 40 just please sign there on the X. That indicates that

00:03:46.9 41 you understand the rights I have just read to you.

00:04:23.5 42 Mr. Robert Ecoffey is also signing the form, witnessing the

00:04:26.3 43 fact that I did read you your rights. This advisement further

00:04:30.0 44 acknowledges that, knowing my rights, and knowing what I am

00:04:33.6 45 doing, I now wish to voluntarily talk to you.

00:04:38.1 46 Arlo, do you wish to discuss this matter involving the

00:04:41.3 47 homicide case, the victim, Anna Mae Aquash?

00:04:45.4 48 LOOKING CLOUD: Yes.

00:04:53.1 49 DIET. ALONZO: You may sign here again indicating that

00:04:54.8 50 knowing my rights, knowing what I am doing, I now wish to

00:04:57.2 51 voluntarily talk to you. If you agree with that, sir, you can

00:05:00.5 52 sign right there by the X.

00:05:47.8 53 ECOFFEY: And, Arlo, just to clarify for the

00:05:49.9 54 record, the warrant that Detective Alonzo is talking about is a

00:05:53.2 55 first degree murder warrant on you for the murder of Anna Mae

00:05:57.3 56 Aquash. Do you understand that?

00:05:59.1 57 LOOKING CLOUD: Yes.

00:05:59.5 58 ECOFFEY: Okay. And like we said earlier, we

00:06:05.1 59 both identified ourselves as to who we are, and we'd at least

00:06:09.6 60 like to go ahead, and you have agreed to cooperate with us.

00:06:14.2 61 ECOFFEY: In this case, we'd like to go back probably from the

00:06:18.0 62 beginning of how this got started, and how you became involved

00:06:26.6 63 with this investigation and with this homicide.

00:06:31.7 64 Arlo, can you go ahead and let's start back to the

00:06:38.8 65 beginning, when you first went to the residence of Troy Lynn

00:06:45.4 66 Irving/Yellow Wood, and then what you observed there. Let's

00:06:49.2 67 just start - let's just start from the beginning. About when was this?

00:06:53.7 68 LOOKING CLOUD: I don't know the date or anything. But I think it was

00:07:02.3 69 in the evening I went over there to see a friend, see if he

00:07:06.3 70 wanted to go have a beer. And I didn't know who was there.

00:07:17.0 71 ECOFFEY: The friend that you was going to see was who?

00:07:20.0 72 LOOKING CLOUD: Joe Morgan.

00:07:24.0 73 ECOFFEY: Joe Morgan. Okay. And when you got there, who did

00:07:30.3 74 you -- who do you remember seeing?

00:07:32.7 75 LOOKING CLOUD: It was Theda, Troy Lynn (inaudible)

00:07:41.5 76 ECOFFEY: That's Theda Nelson?

00:07:42.7 77 LOOKING CLOUD: Yes.

00:07:43.6 78 ECOFFEY: Troy Lynn?

00:07:45.2 79 LOOKING CLOUD: Troy Lynn was there, too.

00:07:47.6 80 ECOFFEY: And who else?

[removed "inaudible and added "I meet them at"]

00:07:49.6 81 LOOKING CLOUD: And I meet them at the door, Theda - they didn't

00:07:57.7 82 let me - they just let me in the kitchen They asked me if I can

[Added "Rapid]

00:08:03.9 83 drive them to Rapid (inaudible) and then she said, Go downstairs. And

00:08:19.0 84 I had never met John Boy before. That was the first time that I

00:08:24.9 85 met him there. And that was in the basement. And he said, Stay

00:08:31.5 86 down here. So I stayed down there.

00:08:35.9 87 ECOFFEY: What did you see when you got down there?

00:08:38.5 88 LOOKING CLOUD: I seen someone laying there on the couch, and

00:08:43.3 89 he was there.

00:08:48.8 90 DET. ALONZO: Let me interrupt for just a second.

00:08:52.5 91 Arlo, after being advised, let me just go over a couple more

00:08:56.3 92 things, just procedure, to make sure that you're aware of all

00:09:00.7 93 the situation that's going on here during this interview. Okay.

00:09:04.7 94 Have any promises or threats been made to you at any time,

00:09:07.5 95 by myself, or Mr. Robert Ecoffey, to get you to make this statement?

00:09:13.3 96 LOOKING CLOUD: No.

00:09:16.8 97 DIET. ALONZO: Are you under the influence of any

00:09:18.4 98 narcotics, drugs, or alcohol?

00:09:23.7 99 LOOKING CLOUD: A little bit of alcohol.

00:09:26.5 100 DIET. ALONZO: A little bit of alcohol?

00:09:27.7 101 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:09:33.5 102 DET. ALONZO: Is this statement being made voluntarily?

00:09:36.3 103 LOOKING CLOUD: Yes.

00:09:38.4 104 DET. ALONZO: And do you understand that this

00:09:39.5 105 interview is being video and audio tape recorded?

00:09:43.1 106 LOOKING CLOUD: Uh-huh.

00:09:49.1 107 DET. ALONZO: Okay. Just so that we keep the record

00:09:50.9 108 straight, for your protection as well as everybody else's, right

00:09:56.4 109 here this indicates that you were advised, which we were --just

00:09:58.7 110 done just a minute ago, with your constitutional rights. This

00:10:02.6 111 here says that, Have any promises or threats been made to you in

00:10:05.7 112 regards to this interview, and you said No, is that correct?

00:10:08.9 113 LOOKING CLOUD: Yes.

00:10:09.7 114 DET. ALONZO: Just put your initials right there next to the No.

00:10:19.0 115 Okay. Then it further states, Are you under the influence

00:10:22.0 116 of any narcotics, drugs, alcohol. And you answered, A little

00:10:26.6 117 bit of alcohol, is that correct?

00:10:28.1 118 LOOKING CLOUD: (No audible answer)

00:10:28.4 119 DET. ALONZO: Just initial that for me, please.

00:10:39.9 120 And is this statement being voluntarily-- being made

00:10:43.1 121 voluntarily, and you said Yes, is that correct?

00:10:44.8 122 LOOKING CLOUD: Yes.

00:10:46.0 123 DET. ALONZO: Just sign - initial that right there.

00:10:55.3 124 And the last statement on here is, Do you understand that this

00:11:01.1 125 interview is being video taped and audio taped?

00:11:04.3 126 LOOKING CLOUD: Yes.

00:11:05.0 127 DET. ALONZO: Okay. Just initial there, please.

00:11:16.9 128 Excuse me for the interruption.

00:11:18.1 129 ECOFFEY: No problem.

00:11:25.4 130 ECOFFEY: Okay. Let's go ahead and

00:11:28.0 131 start from the beginning, ArIo. You went over to Troy Lynn

00:11:32.2 132 Irving's place, Yellow Wood's place, and you was looking for a

00:11:35.6 133 friend.

00:11:36.9 134 LOOKING CLOUD: Yes.

00:11:37.5 135 ECOFFEY: You got there and, again, who met you at the door?

00:11:42.9 136 LOOKING CLOUD: I think it was -- it was Troy Lynn or Theda, I can't

00:11:46.5 137 remember which.

00:11:48.2 138 ECOFFEY: You said -- a little earlier you said it was Troy Lynn

00:11:50.3 139 and Theda met you at the door and took you to the kitchen.

00:11:53.2 140 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah, in the kitchen. That was it. And Theda asked

00:11:59.3 141 me to drive to Rapid City.

00:12:03.8 142 ECOFFEY: Did she say what for?

00:12:06.2 143 LOOKING CLOUD: She didn't say right away.

00:12:07.8 144 ECOFFEY: Okay. But she asked you if you could drive to Rapid City?

00:12:11.4 145 LOOKING CLOUD: Uh-huh.

00:12:12.0 146 ECOFFEY: Okay. And then what happened? Was there other people

00:12:15.4 147 there that you recognized?

00:12:16.9 148 LOOKING CLOUD: There were people in the living room, but they didn't

00:12:19.6 149 let me in the living room.

00:12:21.0 150 ECOFFEY: Okay. So you was just in the kitchen area?

00:12:22.6 151 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:12:23.8 152 ECOFFEY: Okay. So then what did you do from there?

00:12:26.8 153 LOOKING CLOUD: They told me to go down to the basement.

00:12:28.9 154 ECOFFEY: Okay. And then you said when you went down to the

00:12:32.4 155 basement, this is when you met John Boy?

00:12:35.3 156 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:12:35.9 157 ECOFFEY: Is that John Graham or John Patton?

00:12:39.3 158 LOOKING CLOUD: It was John Patton.

00:12:40.5 159 ECOFFEY: John Patton. But you knew the name as John Boy?

00:12:43.8 160 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah. 00:12:45.3 161 ECOFFEY: And you saw him downstairs?

00:12:46.8 162 LOOKING CLOUD: Uh-huh.

00:12:48.2 163 ECOFFEY: Did you have a conversation with him?

00:12:50.0 164 LOOKING CLOUD: Not really, cause I don't know him.

00:12:51.8 165 ECOFFEY: Okay. And then what happened?

00:12:56.9 166 LOOKING CLOUD: They just told me to stay down there. And then they

00:13:00.9 167 went back upstairs.

00:13:04.9 168 ECOFFEY: Okay. When you say "they" went back upstairs, who

00:13:06.8 169 went back upstairs?

00:13:08.1 170 LOOKING CLOUD: Theda, Theda did.

00:13:10.9 171 ECOFFEY: And John Boy?

00:13:11.0 172 LOOKING CLOUD: No. He stayed.

00:13:13.8 173 ECOFFEY: And then what happened?

00:13:18.6 174 LOOKING CLOUD: He stayed down there, and Theda came down. I

00:13:27.5 175 don't know how long. It's been - must have been too long ago. And

00:13:35.6 176 (inaudible) said, You ready to go? I said, Yeah. And they

00:13:45.2 177 pulled the car up. And she says, Wake the girl up. John Boy

00:13:51.1 178 woke her up and we all got in the car.

00:13:58.3 179 ECOFFEY: Okay. Let's backup a little bit. You said that you

00:14:02.1 180 was downstairs with John Boy, and you said they woke the girl up.

00:14:05.7 181 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:14:06.4 182 ECOFFEY: Okay. Where was the girl?

00:14:07.7 183 LOOKING CLOUD: On the couch.

00:14:08.7 184 ECOFFEY: Okay. Who was the girl?

00:14:11.1 185 LOOKING CLOUD: I didn't--see, I never knew her before, either.

00:14:15.2 186 ECOFFEY: Okay. But you know now who - who was she?

00:14:18.2 187 LOOKING CLOUD: Anna Mae.

00:14:19.7 188 ECOFFEY: Anna Mae. Okay. Now, was you there when --when they

00:14:26.2 189 tied her up?

00:14:27.6 190 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:14:29.5 191 ECOFFEY: Okay. Who - who tied her up?

00:14:32.0 192 LOOKING CLOUD: John Boy.

00:14:33.3 193 ECOFFEY: Okay. John Boy tied her up. Who was down there when

00:14:36.7 194 they were tying her up?

00:14:37.8 195 LOOKING CLOUD: Theda and me and John Boy.

00:14:41.9 196 ECOFFEY: Theda, you, and John Boy.

00:14:42.9 197 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:14:43.9 198 ECOFFEY: Okay. What did he tie her up with?

00:14:48.9 199 LOOKING CLOUD: I don't quite remember. Maybe a rope or something.

00:14:53.5 200 ECOFFEY: Okay. When he tied her up, what -- did he put her

00:14:55.0 201 hands behind her back or front or what? Do you remember?

00:15:01.4 202 LOOKING CLOUD: No, I don't remember.

00:15:02.7 203 ECOFFEY: You just remember him tying her up?

00:15:04.3 204 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:15:05.5 205 ECOFFEY: And then did you go get the car and back it up?

00:15:08.2 206 LOOKING CLOUD: No. Theda did.

00:15:10.7 207 ECOFFEY: Theda went and got the car and then backed it up to

00:15:13.0 208 where?

00:15:13.7 209 LOOKING CLOUD: The front, the front door.

00:15:16.4 210 ECOFFEY: Okay. And this was at Troy Lynn --

00:15:18.7 211 LOOKING CLOUD: Yes.

00:15:19.4 212 ECOFFEY: - Irving's place?

00:15:20.2 213 LOOKING CLOUD: Yes.

00:15:20.7 214 ECOFFEY: And this was on (inaudible)

00:15:22.6 215 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:15:23.6 216 ECOFFEY: Okay. And Theda backed the car up,

00:15:26.8 217 and then what happened?

00:15:28.5 218 LOOKING CLOUD: And she got--they brought her out and put her in --

00:15:33.2 219 in the back seat, I think, or in the trunk, the back part.

00:15:39.8 220 ECOFFEY: What kind of car was it?

00:15:41.3 221 LOOKING CLOUD: It was like a station wagon.

00:15:43.4 222 ECOFFEY: Like a little -

00:15:44.2 223 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:15:44.0 224 ECOFFEY: -- station wagon?

00:15:45.5 225 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:15:45.6 226 ECOFFEY: Like a Pinto?

00:15:46.3 227 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah, something like that.

00:15:47.7 228 ECOFFEY: What color was it, do you remember?

00:15:49.0 229 LOOKING CLOUD: Red.

00:15:50.8 230 ECOFFEY: Red. Okay. And that's the kind where you open it up

00:15:54.5 231 and there's just kind of like an open area in the back?

00:15:56.6 232 LOOKING CLOUD: I think so, yeah.

00:15:57.8 233 ECOFFEY: Okay. Is that what happened, then, they opened it up

00:16:01.2 234 and you put her in the back there?

00:16:03.7 235 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:16:04.9 236 ECOFFEY: Okay. Who put her back there?

00:16:06.1 237 LOOKING CLOUD: John Boy.

00:16:07.7 238 ECOFFEY: But you and John Boy took her outside?

00:16:10.1 239 LOOKING CLOUD: No, I -- I think he was -- she just walked.

00:16:15.6 240 ECOFFEY: Okay. But you walked upstairs with her, right

00:16:17.5 241 (inaudible)

00:16:17.7 242 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:16:19.5 243 ECOFFEY: Was she saying anything?

00:16:23.5 244 LOOKING CLOUD: No.

00:16:25.2 245 ECOFFEY: Was she crying and saying, You know, don't take me back?

00:16:28.2 246 LOOKING CLOUD: No.

00:16:28.9 247 ECOFFEY: She wasn't?

00:16:29.8 248 LOOKING CLOUD: I don't think so.

00:16:31.6 249 ECOFFEY: But she was tied up, right?

00:16:32.7 250 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:16:34.8 251 ECOFFEY: And then you laid her in the back of the car, and then

00:16:38.1 252 who got in the car?

00:16:40.0 253 LOOKING CLOUD: Us three.

00:16:42.1 254 ECOFFEY: Okay. Who was -- who sat where?

00:16:45.0 255 LOOKING CLOUD: I think Theda was driving, and I think I was up in the

00:16:49.2 256 front on the side. And I think John Boy was in the back seat.

00:16:54.0 257 ECOFFEY: He was sitting in the back seat?

00:16:56.4 258 LOOKING CLOUD: I think so.

00:16:57.2 259 ECOFFEY: Okay. So was -- after you put her in the car and then

00:17:06.5 260 you all got -- you all three got in and then you left Denver,

00:17:09.6 261 and where did you go?

00:17:11.8 262 LOOKING CLOUD: We went to Rapid.

00:17:16.6 263 ECOFFEY: Okay. You drove from here and went to Rapid?

00:17:18.3 264 LOOKING CLOUD: Uh-huh.

00:17:19.1 265 ECOFFEY: And then where did you go at in Rapid?

00:17:21.2 266 LOOKING CLOUD: Some house, it was an empty house. I don't know.

00:17:28.4 267 It was on a hill, I remember that.

00:17:31.1 268 ECOFFEY: Was it like an apartment or house or --

00:17:33.5 269 LOOKING CLOUD: House.

00:17:34.5 270 ECOFFEY: House. Okay. When you got to the house, what did you

00:17:41.5 271 do when you got there?

00:17:43.3 272 LOOKING CLOUD: Took her upstairs. And there was a room there.

00:17:48.7 273 She went in there. She stayed in there.

00:17:56.1 274 ECOFFEY: Did you and John Boy sit outside and kind of watch her?

00:17:58.5 275 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah. Well, John Boy was in the room with her.

00:18:01.7 276 ECOFFEY: John Boy was-

00:18:02.1 277 LOOKING CLOUD: I stayed out.

00:18:02.0 278 ECOFFEY: Okay. Where did you stay?

00:18:04.0 279 LOOKING CLOUD: It was something -- it was like a living room, I think.

00:18:07.3 280 ECOFFEY: You were sitting out front and John Boy was in the

00:18:08.9 281 room with her?

00:18:09.8 282 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah, I was out. But it was - they were upstairs.

00:18:15.5 283 ECOFFEY: Okay.

00:18:16.0 284 LOOKING CLOUD: (inaudible) let's go ahead and sleep, so I went to

00:18:18.4 285 sleep.

00:18:19.3 286 ECOFFEY: So you went to sleep?

00:18:20.0 287 LOOKING CLOUD: Uh-huh.

00:18:20.8 288 ECOFFEY: Okay. Let's back up a little bit. Well, let's go

00:18:24.4 289 ahead and keep going, talking about this, and then we'll back up

00:18:28.0 290 and kind of fill in some details. Okay.

00:18:29.7 291 LOOKING CLOUD: Uh-huh.

00:18:30.7 292 ECOFFEY: Okay. You was there at this vacant house up there,

00:18:36.2 293 and you had her in the room, John Boy was in there with her, and

00:18:38.4 294 you was outside in the living room.

00:18:41.0 295 LOOKING CLOUD: Uh-huh.

00:18:41.5 296 ECOFFEY: And then what happened? Theda was there,

00:18:44.4 297 where did Theda go?

00:18:45.5 298 LOOKING CLOUD: Uh, she went somewhere. I don't know where

00:18:48.6 299 she went. But she came back with some food.

00:18:55.0 300 ECOFFEY: Okay.

00:18:57.9 301 LOOKING CLOUD: And we slept - and I don't know where she went.

00:19:02.5 302 But she kept coming in and out, I think, a few times. Then I went

00:19:08.5 303 to sleep.

00:19:11.1 304 ECOFFEY: And all that time you had kept Anna Mae tied up in

00:19:13.3 305 that room?

00:19:14.1 306 LOOKING CLOUD: I don't think she was tied up in the room. I don't

00:19:19.2 307 know (inaudible) I think she was talking to John, John Boy.

00:19:27.3 308 ECOFFEY: Okay.

00:19:27.0 309 LOOKING CLOUD: They must have known each other. I don't know.

00:19:29.6 310 ECOFFEY: Who - who told you to go to this house that you took

00:19:32.5 311 her to?

00:19:35.1 312 LOOKING CLOUD: Theda did.

00:19:35.6 313 ECOFFEY: Theda did. So Theda knew where to take her?

00:19:37.9 314 LOOKING CLOUD: I think so, yeah.

00:19:40.3 315 ECOFFEY: Okay. And about what time was it?

00:19:56.8 316 LOOKING CLOUD: It might have been about 3:00 or 2:00, somewhere

00:19:58.9 317 around there.

00:19:59.8 318 ECOFFEY: In the morning?

00:20:01.9 319 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah. It might have been somewhere around there.

00:20:04.6 320 ECOFFEY: Let's back up a little bit. About what time was it

00:20:06.5 321 when you left Denver?

00:20:07.9 322 LOOKING CLOUD: In the evening.

00:20:08.0 323 ECOFFEY: In the evening?

00:20:09.5 324 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah. But I don't know what time in the evening.

00:20:11.3 325 ECOFFEY: And then you drove directly to Rapid City?

00:20:13.5 326 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:20:14.3 327 ECOFFEY: Okay. But Theda knew where to take her?

00:20:20.9 328 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:20:24.2 329 ECOFFEY: Now, back in Denver, before you left Denver with her,

00:20:31.3 330 did you hear some of the discussion that was going on --

00:20:33.9 331 LOOKING CLOUD: No.

00:20:34.9 332 ECOFFEY: - about her?

00:20:35.7 333 LOOKING CLOUD: No.

00:20:38.3 334 ECOFFEY: What was -- what was your --

00:20:43.3 335 LOOKING CLOUD: Theda mentioned, she said, She's -- she's an

00:20:48.5 336 informant, and they're gonna -- they want to - that's her

00:20:53.6 337 (inaudible) I was like, Who. She's the one, she's an informant,

00:21:00.2 338 and they need to talk to her.

00:21:04.9 339 ECOFFEY: And that was when you still had her in the basement

00:21:06.1 340 down there?

00:21:06.5 341 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:21:07.2 342 ECOFFEY: Okay. And Theda said, She's the one, she's the

00:21:09.0 343 informant.

00:21:10.4 344 LOOKING CLOUD: Uh-huh.

00:21:10.0 345 ECOFFEY: And they need to talk to her.

00:21:13.9 346 And then she -- did she tell you to tie her up ? 00:21:16.6 347 LOOKING CLOUD: Huh-uh.

00:21:17.8 348 ECOFFEY: John Boy tied her up there.

00:21:19.9 349 LOOKING CLOUD: I think she told John Boy that.

00:21:21.5 350 ECOFFEY: Told John Boy to tie her up. Okay. All right. So

00:21:25.6 351 then your impression from Theda was that - that Anna Mae was an

00:21:31.9 352 informant, that you tied her up, and that you was taking her

00:21:34.5 353 back to Rapid City because somebody wanted to do what?

00:21:39.6 354 LOOKING CLOUD: Just take her back, and that's it.

00:21:41.8 355 ECOFFEY: To take her back to South Dakota?

00:21:42.7 356 LOOKING CLOUD: That's what I thought. They told me to just drop her

00:21:46.4 357 off and come back again.

00:21:47.8 358 ECOFFEY: That's what who told you?

00:21:49.6 359 LOOKING CLOUD: Theda.

00:21:50.1 360 ECOFFEY: Theda told you. Okay.

00:21:52.4 361 LOOKING CLOUD: Just drop her off and we'll be back.

00:21:54.7 362 ECOFFEY: Okay. And then you got into Rapid, Theda told you

00:22:00.3 363 exactly where to go?

00:22:02.8 364 LOOKING CLOUD: Well, she was the one that was driving.

00:22:04.9 365 ECOFFEY: Oh, she was driving?

00:22:05.4 366 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah, cause I was tired after a while.

00:22:08.2 367 ECOFFEY: Okay. So she's the one that drove up to the -

00:22:11.2 368 LOOKING CLOUD: The house.

00:22:11.7 369 ECOFFEY: -- house. Did -- was there anybody there at the house

00:22:14.9 370 when you got there?

00:22:16.2 371 LOOKING CLOUD: No. But we waited, and she went somewhere and

00:22:18.7 372 she got the keys. Must have been close by, because we was still

00:22:24.3 373 in the car.

00:22:26.4 374 ECOFFEY: Oh, you stayed in the car and then she left the car

00:22:28.4 375 and went and got some keys?

00:22:29.4 376 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:22:30.0 377 ECOFFEY: And she came back and opened the house?

00:22:31.6 378 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:22:32.8 379 ECOFFEY: Okay. And then you took her inside?

00:22:34.9 380 LOOKING CLOUD: Uh-huh.

00:22:38.2 381 ECOFFEY: Upstairs, into a room, and John Boy went in the room

00:22:40.3 382 with her?

00:22:40.0 383 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:22:41.8 384 ECOFFEY: And you stayed outside. Okay. And then you said

00:22:45.8 385 Theda went -- this was about 3:00 in the morning, you said?

00:22:49.0 386 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah, somewhere around there.

00:22:51.1 387 ECOFFEY: Okay. And then Theda left and then came back with

00:22:55.1 388 some food?

00:22:55.7 389 LOOKING CLOUD: Uh-huh.

00:22:57.3 390 ECOFFEY: And then what happened?

00:22:59.6 391 LOOKING CLOUD: And then she said we were gonna have to stay here

00:23:01.7 392 all day. And so we stayed there all day, and she kept coming in and

00:23:12.4 393 out during the day.

00:23:14.6 394 ECOFFEY: Theda did?

00:23:15.2 395 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:23:16.0 396 ECOFFEY: What was she saying?

00:23:17.3 397 LOOKING CLOUD: Not too much. She'd just bring food and she'd go

00:23:20.7 398 talk to John Boy.

00:23:23.8 399 ECOFFEY: Okay. And then what happened?

00:23:27.3 400 LOOKING CLOUD: I slept most of the time. And then in the evening,

00:23:29.6 401 we left again.

00:23:33.2 402 ECOFFEY: Okay. Arlo, you didn't -- you didn't take her down to,

00:23:37.5 403 the Wounded Knee defense house that day?

00:23:40.2 404 LOOKING CLOUD: I don't think so, no. We just stayed in that house

00:23:44.7 405 all day.

00:23:45.7 406 ECOFFEY: You remember staying in the house. Okay. Well, let's

00:23:51.1 407 go ahead and let you tell us what happened, the best you

00:23:56.5 408 remember. Then I'll come back and we'll try to fill in some blanks.

00:23:59.5 409 Okay. So then you said you stayed there with her, and then

00:24:04.4 410 you stayed - got there at 3:00 in the morning, you stayed there

00:24:08.5 411 all day, and then it was evening time.

00:24:11.5 412 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah, it was in the evening.

00:24:13.8 413 ECOFFEY: The next day. And then Theda come back, and then what

00:24:16.6 414 happened?

00:24:17.6 415 LOOKING CLOUD: Then she-- it was in the evening, and said we had

00:24:21.2 416 to go again.

00:24:22.7 417 ECOFFEY: Okay. So what did you do?

00:24:27.5 418 LOOKING CLOUD: So we went again. It was night when we went

00:24:32.6 419 towards Rosebud.

00:24:33.9 420 ECOFFEY: Okay.

00:24:35.8 421 LOOKING CLOUD: Or somewhere around there, Rosebud.

00:24:38.5 422 ECOFFEY: Okay.

00:24:40.9 423 LOOKING CLOUD: It was night. We stopped at some house, and she

00:24:44.7 424 went in. And then she came out and then John Boy went in. They both

00:24:55.8 425 went in. 00:24:56.4 426 ECOFFEY: They both went in?

00:24:57.7 427 LOOKING CLOUD: And then they both came out again.

00:24:59.8 428 ECOFFEY: How long were they in there?

00:25:00.8 429 LOOKING CLOUD: Not very long.

00:25:03.1 430 ECOFFEY: And you stayed out --

00:25:04.6 431 LOOKING CLOUD: - in the car.

00:25:05.9 432 ECOFFEY: - in the car with Anna Mae. Okay. And this was on

00:25:11.7 433 Rosebud?

00:25:12.7 434 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah, somewhere over there.

00:25:13.0 435 ECOFFEY: Okay. Was this at (inaudible) place?

00:25:17.3 436 LOOKING CLOUD: I don't know.

00:25:18.3 437 ECOFFEY: Bill Means?

00:25:18.6 438 LOOKING CLOUD: I've never been there. I've never been --

00:25:21.9 439 ECOFFEY: You never been (inaudible)

00:25:23.2 440 LOOKING CLOUD: - to any other house (inaudible) doing whatever

00:25:27.8 441 (inaudible) Lupe just burned him when he was here.

00:25:30.9 442 ECOFFEY: Okay.

00:25:31.6 443 LOOKING CLOUD: But all the rest of them I don't know.

00:25:37.2 444 ECOFFEY: How was t decided to go to - to take her from Rapid?

00:25:44.1 445 What did - what did Theda say to you? We got to take her

00:25:46.1 446 where, or who told you to take - take her into the house?

00:25:50.8 447 LOOKING CLOUD: Theda did.

00:25:52.4 448 ECOFFEY: Theda did?

00:25:52.8 449 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah. Go there, go here.

00:25:56.3 450 ECOFFEY: Okay. So then you kept her tied up, and you put her

00:26:00.8 451 back in the car, and you left?

00:26:04.7 452 LOOKING CLOUD: I don't think she was tied up when she was in there

00:26:06.9 453 with John Boy.

00:26:07.9 454 ECOFFEY: Okay. But when you brought her out, she was tied up?

00:26:11.4 455 LOOKING CLOUD: I think so, yeah. Yeah, she was.

00:26:13.9 456 ECOFFEY: Who tied her up then?

00:26:15.4 457 LOOKING CLOUD: John Boy.

00:26:16.0 458 ECOFFEY: And then you left the--the house?

00:26:19.3 459 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:26:20.0 460 ECOFFEY: You loaded her back up in the car?

00:26:21.1 461 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:26:22.1 462 ECOFFEY: And you drove from there, and you went to Rosebud?

00:26:27.9 463 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:26:28.5 464 ECOFFEY: And you stopped at a house there?

00:26:29.8 465 LOOKING CLOUD: At a house, yeah.

00:26:32.2 466 ECOFFEY: And you said Theda went in?

00:26:33.6 467 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:26:36.6 468 ECOFFEY: And then came back out, and then both her and John Boy

00:26:38.7 469 went in?

00:26:39.5 470 LOOKING CLOUD: Uh-huh.

00:26:40.4 471 ECOFFEY: And then what happened?

00:26:43.9 472 LOOKING CLOUD: They came out. And they said, We got to go

00:26:48.5 473 (inaudible) are we going back to Rapid or what. But I didn't

00:26:55.4 474 think that was gonna happen. I didn't know. They don't -- they

00:27:01.6 475 didn't tell me nothing. So I didn't know that that was gonna happen.

00:27:08.1 476 ECOFFEY: Okay. When they got back into the car and said, We

00:27:11.3 477 got to go, what did - what did they say?

00:27:13.0 478 LOOKING CLOUD: They didn't say nothing.

00:27:14.1 479 ECOFFEY: They said, We got to go. Okay. Who was sitting --

00:27:16.2 480 who was driving the car when you left this house in Rosebud?

00:27:19.7 481 LOOKING CLOUD: Theda was.

00:27:20.9 482 ECOFFEY: Theda was driving. And where was you?

00:27:22.9 483 LOOKING CLOUD: I was sitting on the side.

00:27:26.9 484 ECOFFEY: In the front?

00:27:27.4 485 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:27:29.9 486 ECOFFEY: John Boy was sitting in the back?

00:27:30.0 487 LOOKING CLOUD: Yeah.

00:27:31.6 488 ECOFFEY: And then Anna Mae was laying down in the back --

00:27:33.4 489 LOOKING CLOUD: Uh-huh.

00:27:34.1 490 ECOFFEY: - like coming from Denver. Okay.

00:27:38.2 491 LOOKING CLOUD: And then we switched again. I'd sit in the back and

00:27:40.6 492 then he'd sit (inaudible) him and Theda.

00:27:44.9 493 ECOFFEY: When you left Rosebud, you guys switched places?

00:27:46.6 494 LOOKING CLOUD: Again, yeah.

00:27:47.5 495 ECOFFEY: Again. Okay. And then where did you -- where did you

00:27:49.4 496 go from there?

00:27:51.6 497 LOOKING CLOUD: We went towards Rapid, the old road - I mean the

00:27:54.8 498 road from (inaudible) or somewhere.

00:27:57.3 499 ECOFFEY: Uh-huh.

00:27:57.9 500 LOOKING CLOUD: That way. And it was getting towards morning.