MR. MANDEL: The United States would call Angie

Janis, Your Honor.

ANGIE JANIS,

called as a witness, being first duly sworn, testified and

said as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. Would you state your name, please?

A. Angie Janis.

Q. Can you spell your last name?

A. J-A-N-I-S.

Q. Where do you live?

A. Pine Ridge, South Dakota.

Q. Are you employed down there?

A. Yes, I am.

Q. What do you do for a living?

A. I am a self-determination assistant.

Q. Who are you employed by?

A. Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Q. How long have you been a BIA employee?

A. About ten years.

Q. Has that all been in the same job?

A. No.

Q. What other jobs have you had there?

A. I worked for the Pine Ridge school. That was under the

bureau too.

Q. Are you originally from Pine Ridge?

A. No.

Q. Where are you from originally?

A. Minnesota.

Q. Back in the 1970's, particularly at the end of 1975,

where were you living?

A. In Denver.

Q. What were you doing down there in Denver at that time?

A. I was working as a secretary.

Q. Who were you employed by?

A. Native American Rights Fund.

Q. Was that located up in Boulder, Colorado?

A. Yes.

Q. Were you also at that time familiar with the American

Indian Movement in Denver?

A. Yes.

Q. And what was your acquaintance with that?

A. I just was involved with the movement.

Q. Would you consider yourself a member of AIM?

A. I was.

Q. Were you also involved in a relationship at that time

with an individual named John Graham or John Boy Patton?

A. Yes.

Q. When did you first become involved with him?

A. I think the summer of '75.

Q. What name did you know him by?

A. John Boy.

Q. Was the last name Patton?

A. Yes.

Q. Did the two of you live together during that period of time?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you have your own residence?

A. Yes.

Q. Was that in Denver?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you also know an individual by the name of Troy Lynn

Yellow Wood?

A. Yes,

Q. How did you know her?

A. Through her aunt.

Q. And her aunt would be?

A. Theda Clark.

Q. Troy Lynn Irving also known as Troy Lynn Yellow Wood?

A. Yes.

Q. How did you know Theda Clark?

A. She was involved in the movement.

Q. And you just met her through that?

A. Yes.

Q. When did you first meet her?

A. I think in '74, but I am not sure.

Q. Did you spend any time over at Troy Lynn Irving's residence?

A. Yes.

Q. And what would you go there for?

A. Just to visit.

Q. Do you remember where she lived at that time?

A. Yes, on Pecos.

Q. What type of structure was it that she lived in, a house

or an apartment?

A. Kind of a triplex or something like that.

Q. Did a lot of people from AIM tend to meet over there at

that time?

A. I am not sure.

Q. Well, normally if you would be going over there why did

you go there?

A. Just to visit.

Q. Do you remember a particular time when you came to Troy

Lynn's residence when somebody was taken from there?

A. Yes.

Q. Can you tell us how that came about?

A. I got a call, I was working at the Native American

Rights Fund, and I got a call from Thelma Rios.

MR. RENSCH: Objection, Your Honor, hearsay.

THE COURT: Either move the microphone up this way a

little ways away from you, or sit back a little bit, you get a

little bit of feedback in to it. Just a moment. Thank you.

Not thus far, overruled.

BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. You were saying you got a call there at the Native

American Rights Fund?

A. I got a call from Thelma, and I can't remember the --

Q. Thelma who?

A. Thelma Rios.

Q. What did she say to you at that time?

MR. RENSCH: Objection, hearsay.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. MANDEL: Your Honor, this isn't being offered

for the truth of what is asserted, but simply to show what

prompted the actions she took.

THE COURT: On that limited basis I will allow it.

With a limiting instruction again. This isn't to say that

whatever might have been said was true, so it is not admitted

for the truth of the matter stated. It apparently is being

offered for some action that subsequently was taken to show

the basis for that action, but not necessarily that what ever

is being stated now is true. With that limiting instruction

you can answer.

A. I can't remember the exact words, but something to do

with Anna Mae was an informant and needs to come back to

Rapid, something like that.

BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. What were you supposed to do?

A. Just tell someone in Denver.

Q. Who did you tell?

A. I am not sure who I told. Theda or John Boy, Theda

Clark or John Boy, I don't remember who exactly I told.

Q. What happened after you did that? Did you at some point

go to Troy Lynn's house?

A. Yes.

Q. Why did you go there?

A. To tell someone.

Q. That is when you informed them that Anna Mae needed to

be taken to South Dakota?

A. Yes.

Q. What happened then once you were there at the house?

A. I think they called some people there to Troy Lynn's

house, and they all met upstairs in the kitchen.

Q. Let me ask you, did you know Anna Mae Aquash prior to that?

A. Yes.

Q. How did you know her?

A. Through various meetings, conference, places where AIM

was, she was there.

Q. When did you first know her?

A. I am not sure.

Q. Were you present at Wounded Knee?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you meet her there?

A. No, I never -- no.

Q. Did you know she had been staying at Troy Lynn's?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you have any idea how long she had been there?

A. No. No.

Q. Did you have any discussions with her while she was there?

A. With Anna Mae?

Q. Yes.

A. We visited.

Q. Did she say why she was there?

A. I don't remember.

Q. Were you aware that she had jumped bond on the trial

that she had in South Dakota?

A. I am not sure.

Q. And I don't know if I asked you, but do you recall about

what date this all happened?

A. No. I think it was November, but I don't know the date.

Q. Of 1975?

A. Yes.

Q. Is it possible it was even in to December?

A. No, I don't think so.

Q. After you conveyed this message, went to the house

there, do you recall what happened next?

A. They had a meeting, and I think, I know she was

downstairs, had a meeting in the kitchen, and they called some

people in from the Mexican movement, but I don't remember who

they were.

Q. The movement called the Crusade for Justice?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember an Ernesto Vijil?

MR. RENSCH: Objection, leading. Your Honor.

THE COURT: Sustained.

BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. Do you recall how many people were at the meeting?

A. No.

Q. Do you remember any of the people who attended the meeting?

A. Yes. I think I do.

Q. Who was there?

A. Troy Lynn, Arlo, John Boy, George Palfey, Ernesto, and I

think there was someone else, but I don't know who the other

person was.

Q. I am sorry, didn't get the last name?

A. The Ernesto that you mentioned.

Q. When you say Arlo, are you referring to Arlo Looking Cloud?

A. Yes.

Q. How long had you known Arlo at that time?

A. Maybe I just met him about a month or less maybe, I am

not real sure about that.

Q. Do you recognize him seated in the courtroom today?

A. Yes.

Q. Can you tell me where he is seated and what he is wearing?

A. Gray shirt and glasses.

MR. MANDEL: I ask the record to indicate the

defendant has been identified. Your Honor.

THE COURT: It may.

BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. ' Over the years between 1975 and today have you seen Arlo

on other occasions?

A. Yes, in Denver.

Q. Has it been quite a while since you have seen him?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember what was being discussed at that meeting?

A. That she was an informant, and I don't know, someone

mentioned what they do, the Crusade mentioned what they do to

informants.

Q. And what was it they said they do to informants?

MR. RENSCH: Objection, hearsay.

THE COURT: Just a moment. We are going to have an

evidentiary recess at this point. We will have a recess for

about ten minutes, don't talk about the case nor the

witnesses. Please stand for the jury.

(Jury Leaves ).

THE COURT: Please be seated. I want to hear

argument on this point.

MR. MANDEL: Your Honor, very simply this is a

meeting at which Arlo Looking Cloud was present, this goes

directly to his intent and knowledge. Let me ask the question

and get out what was said.

THE COURT: Well, go ahead.

MR. MANDEL: For the purpose of this discussion

only, Your Honor.

BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. What did they say they did with informants?

A. He made some kind of motion. They go like this to them

he said.

Q. What did you understand that to mean?

A. Probably that they do away with them.

Q. That they kill them?

A. Yes.

Q. Cut their throats?

A. Yeah.

MR. MANDEL: Okay, thank you. Your Honor, this is a

meeting which she was present at, Arlo Looking Cloud was

present at, and it is certainly not offered for the truth of

what was asserted. I don't care what the Crusade for Justice

did with informants, you know, if there is any accuracy to

that or not, but what it goes to is his knowledge at the time

that the victim was taken from that house in Denver, Colorado,

and it is not hearsay evidence, it is not offered for their

purpose, and it bears directly on the issue that is in

contention in this case.

THE COURT: I will hear from the defense.

MR. RENSCH: If you look at the way that this

question was phrased, at the point I was making the objection

and you asked for the evidentiary hearing, she was asked what

was said by the person from the Mexican movement and what she

took that to mean. Well, the statement is this is what we do

to them in our movement. What she took that to mean was they

kill people in the movement. It is clearly for the truth of

the matter asserted. The person who said this is not

available for any cross examination what so ever. It is more

prejudicial than it is probative, and it is simply the truth

of the matter asserted any way you slice it. And it will be

argued as such at the end, because they will say, well, he

should have known if this person from the Mexican movement is

saying we kill informants. So I think it is clear hearsay, it

would be a violation of the confrontation clause to allow it,

and we request that it be excluded.

THE COURT: Anything further, you are standing.

MR. MANDEL: Yes. Candidly, Your Honor, I think it

is a complete misapprehension of the hearsay rule on the part

of counsel. It is not being offered for the truth of what is

being asserted, it makes no difference whether or not it was

true that they ever did anything to an informant in the

movement, or if it was just bravado, or what it was. The

point is that statement was made in front of the defendant,

that that was knowledge that he had, and that is the

significance of it. It is not a question of it being

admissible hearsay, it is a question of it isn't hearsay at

all that is being offered in this case.

THE COURT: Well, who is he that drew his finger

across the throat?

THE WITNESS: I think it was Ernesto. It was either

him or the other guy, I don't remember for sure.

THE COURT: Was Mr. Looking Cloud there when that

happened.

THE WITNESS: I don't know if he was there. I know

he was in the house, but I don't know if he was specifically

in the room.

THE COURT: Well, I mean that's the rest of what you

didn't establish with your question. They, I mean Mr. Looking

Cloud was at the meeting, but what about that?

MR. MANDEL: Your Honor, that is something that is

going to go to the weight of the evidence. That doesn't go to

the admissibility of this piece of evidence. Counsel is

entitled to argue that he was present in the house, we can

discuss the size of the house, it was a very small house, this

statement was made, shortly thereafter the victim is tied up

and taken out of the house. You know, the jury can process

that evidence how they want, but that has nothing to do with

the issue of the admissibility of that, that only goes to the

weight, Your Honor.

THE COURT: I thought she was down in the basement,

I didn't think she was taken out of the house.

MR. MANDEL: She was taken out of the house

subsequent to this.

THE COURT: I wanted to make sure I wasn't

remembering it wrong. You said she was taken out of the

house, I thought when this discussion went on the evidence in

front of the jury was the discussion was in the kitchen

upstairs and Anna Mae Aquash was down in the basement when

this was going on.

MR. MANDEL: Right.

THE COURT: Alright.

MR. RENSCH; Can I say something, Your Honor?

THE COURT: Certainly.

MR. RENSCH: If there is doubt about whether or not

he was there when that statement was said, and if this all

goes to just weight and not admissibility, that statement that

is attributed to a person who doesn't come in here to Court is

going to be thrown all over in front of this jury, and while I

believe and I hope that juries can look through that and

listen to the evidence and do what they are supposed to do,

this is so capable of being turned in to something very, very

prejudicial that hurts my client's fair trial rights. If they

wanted that statement that bad, there would be other ways they

can bring the declarant in, there are things that can be done.

And if we are not sure that Arlo was in the room when that

statement was being said, it couldn't serve a greater

injustice than to have that be used against him in this case,

and I would ask it be excluded.

THE COURT: Sustained as to that as well as

foundation with regard to the movement by one of the Mexican

movement members across his throat indicating slicing

somebody's throat. Even though it is an act and not a verbal

or written statement, none-the-less it can fall under the

hearsay rule, and as the problem with that, and a problem with

foundation in that it has not been established that at the

time of the drawing of the finger across the throat that

Mr. Looking Cloud was in the kitchen. So bring the jury back

in, you can continue then with your examination. Please stand

for the jury.

(Jury Returns).

THE COURT: You may continue.

MR. MANDEL: Thank you, Your Honor.

BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. Now this meeting that was taking place, where in the

house did you say it was occurring?

A. In the kitchen.

Q. Was this house on more than one level?

A. Yes, has a basement, had a basement.

Q. Just a basement and a main floor?

A. Yes.

Q. The kitchen I take it was on the main floor?

A. Yes.

Q. How big a house was it?

A. I think it was a three bedroom.

Q. Was the basement finished?

A. No.

Q. During this meeting that was taking place, do you know

where Anna Mae Aquash was?

A. In the basement.

Q. Was there anybody down there with her?

A. I don't know. I think -- I don't know.

Q. Was some decision made at this meeting?

A. I think to take her back to Rapid City.

Q. Do you know who expressed that that was going to be done?

A. No, I don't remember.

Q. Did somebody then do something toward taking her back to

Rapid City?

A. Yes.

Q. Can you tell us what happened?

A. They brought her upstairs and took her out the door.

Q. First of all, who brought her upstairs?

A. I don't remember who brought her up.

Q. You don't recall who brought her up?

A. No.

MR. MANDEL: Your Honor, I ask that I be allowed to

approach the witness and show her her grand jury testimony to

see if that would refresh her recollection.

THE COURT: You may.

(Shows Grand Jury Testimony to Witness).

BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. Ms. Janis, did you testify at the grand jury almost ten

years ago in this matter?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Did you just have an opportunity to look at some of your

grand jury testimony from that date?

A. Yes.

Q. Does looking at that refresh your recollection as to

what took place on that date?

A. Yes. Theda, John Boy and Arlo, they took her out of the

house, but I didn't see them when they left. I didn't see

them actually put her in the car and leave.

Q. Who brought her out of the basement?

A. I think Theda and John Boy and Arlo.

Q. And what was her condition when she was taken from the

basement?

A. She was tied up.

Q. How was she tied up?

A. I think her wrists were tied, and they had her on like a

board or something, her hands were tied to the board.

Q. Do you recall --

A. They carried her out.

Q. They carried her out?

A. Yes.

Q. How long had Arlo been there at the house before this

happened?

A. You mean as far as hours or days?

Q. Right, hours. On that day when you came there, was he

there the whole time?

A. I think he was. I am not, I don't know for sure.

Q. How long were you there before this happened that she

was taken out?

A. A couple hours maybe.

Q. What did you think was happening to her at that time?

A. I just don't know, I just thought they were taking her

back to Rapid to question her. You know, nothing bad would

happen to her I thought. You know, I didn't think anything

bad was going to happen.

Q. In spite of the fact that she was carried out of there

tied up?

A. Yes, because there were other informants before her and

nothing ever happened to them. John Durham.

Q. Now did you see whose vehicle they left in?

A. No, I didn't see.

Q. Do you know what kind of vehicle Theda Clark had at that time?

A. She had a little red Pinto station wagon.

Q. Did you go outside of the house after Anna Mae was removed?

A. No.

Q. Did you stay in the house for some time after that?

A. Yes.

Q. How long?

A. Probably about an hour.

Q. Did anybody attempt to call law enforcement after this happened?

A. No.

Q. Specifically did Troy Lynn Irving ever try to call the police?

A. No.

Q. Did you ever interfere with somebody trying to contact

law enforcement?

A. No.

Q. After the removal from the house, how long did you stay there?

A. About an hour, I think. I don't remember how long I

stayed there for sure.

Q. Was there any discussion at that time about what had

taken place?

A. I know Troy Lynn called her mom, and I think her mom came.

Q. Was she upset?

A. Yes.

Q. What about you?

A. Yes.

Q. Were you concerned?

A. Yes.

Q. Now you were living with John Boy at that time. How

long was he gone for?

A. I don't remember how long he was gone for.

Q. Well, was it, can you tell us if it was more than a day?

A. Yes, it was more than a day.

Q. Would it have been a few days?

A. I think so.

Q. When he came back, did he have any discussions with you

about this?

A. No.

Q. Did you at some point find out that Anna Mae Aquash had

been murdered?

A. Yes.

Q. When was that?

A. I don't remember when I found out.

Q. Would it have been close in time to this, within a few months?

A. Well, I don't know. I don't remember.

Q. Well, did you think her death was connected to when she

was taken away from the house there in Denver?

MR. RENSCH: Objection, relevance, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Overruled.

A. Can you repeat that?

BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. I am asking if you thought her murder was connected to

that day you saw her taken away from the house there in Denver?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you ever discuss that with anyone?

A. No.

Q. Nobody at all?

A. I think I might have talked to Troy Lynn.

Q. Did you ever think of going to law enforcement about it?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Did you do so?

A. No.

Q. Why not?

A. Scared.

Q. Are you scared as you sit here today talking about it?

A. Yeah.

MR. MANDEL: No further questions, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Cross exam.

CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. RENSCH:

Q. Afternoon, Ma'am.

A. Hello.

Q. Just so everybody is clear, you don't know for sure if

Arlo was present during this meeting, do you?

A. No.

Q. It could have been that he was down in the basement,

isn't that true?

A. Yes.

Q. And Ms. Pictou-Aquash was in the basement, wasn't she?

A. Yes.

Q. When you say she was carried out of the house, are you

saying she was carried out on a board?

A. I think she was carried out like a board like this and

her hands were tied, I think.

Q. Are you absolutely sure about that?

A. I know she was carried out.

Q. Were any of her feet touching the ground as she went out?

A. I am not sure.

Q. Could she have walked out?

A. No, I don't think so.

Q. You don't know who tied her up, do you, Ma'am?

A. No.

Q. And you never saw how she was put in the vehicle, did

you, Ma'am?

A. No.

Q. Now you have testified before at a grand jury about

this, haven't you?

A. Yes.

Q. You never said anything to the other grand jury about

her being tied up to a board, did you?

A. I don't remember.

Q. Well, as you looked at the grand jury testimony, did you

see reference to a board?

A. No.

Q. You have spoken with Mr. Robert Ecoffey several times

about this, haven't you?

A. Yes.

Q. You know Robert Ecoffey, don't you?

A. Yes.

Q. He is a relative, isn't he?

A. No.

Q. Is he a relative of your present husband's?

A. Yes.

Q. How so?

A. I am not sure how they are related.

Q. How long have you been married to your present husband?

A. Fifteen years.

Q. When you spoke with Robert Ecoffey in 1993, you didn't

mention Arlo Looking Cloud, did you?

A. I don't remember.

Q. If Robert Ecoffey had a report indicating that he spoke

to you and it didn't make reference to Arlo Looking Cloud, do

you remember separately talking to him about Arlo Looking

Cloud in 1993?

A. No, I don't remember.

Q. And you also spoke with Mr. Ecoffey in June of 1994, die

you not?

A. I think so.

Q. You have spoken to him a number of times, haven't you?

A. Yes.

Q. You didn't tell him anything about Ms. Pictou-Aquash

being tied to a board, did you?

A. I don' t know.

Q. And when you spoke to him in July of 1994, you didn't

say anything to him about Ms. Pictou-Aquash being tied to a

board, did you?

A. I don't know.

Q. What color was the board?

A. I don't know.

Q. What color was the rope?

A. I don't know.

Q. Did you see the rope?

A. I -- no, I don't think so.

Q. Did you see her hands?

A. I think I did.

Q. But you don't remember for sure, do you?

A. No, been a long time.

Q. A lot of years have passed since that day?

A. Yes.

Q. Was that day a crossroads in your life?

A. Yes.

Q. Your life changed after that day?

A. Um-hum.

Q. Were you an enemy of Ms. Pictou-Aquash in December of 1975?

A. No.

Q. You consider her a friend?

A. I did.

Q. You liked her, and when she left that day you didn't

think that anything bad was going to happen to her other than

just some questioning, did you?

A. No, I didn't.

Q. If you would have thought that something terrible was

going to happen to her, would you have done something about it

do you think?

A. Yes.

Q. Like call the police and tried to help her?

A. Yes.

Q. And you didn't call the police and try to help her, did

you?

A. No.

Q. Have you felt bad because you didn't do something to try

to help?

A. Yes.

Q. If in 1975 you are an American Indian in the American

Indian Movement, did it serve a purpose to snoop around, ask

questions?

A. I don't know.

Q. Were there times when you saw other things that you just

thought, hey, I better just not say anything, and let this

thing run its course and maybe it will be alright?

A. No.

Q. Did you feel like you just really didn't have any

choice, you just had to be quiet about it back then?

A. Yes.

MR. RENSCH: Nothing further, thank you.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MANDEL:

Q. Was it clear to you that Ms. Aquash was being taken

against her will?

A. Yes.

Q. And three people you have mentioned, Arlo, John Boy and

Theda, were going that?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you ever in the time that you belonged to AIM tie

somebody up and abduct them?

A. No.

Q. Would you have done something like that?

A. No.

Q. Why not?

A. I have no reason to do that.

Q. Did you believe there was any reason to do that to Anna

Mae Aquash?

A. No.

Q. Is the reason that you didn't call the police because

you didn't think that something was going to happen, or

because you were simply afraid?

A. I didn't think anything was going to happen.

Q. In spite of what you saw?

A. Yes.

MR. MANDEL: Nothing further. Your Honor.

MR. RENSCH: Nothing further, thank you.

THE COURT: Thank you, you may step down. Call your

next witness.