Trial of Arlo Looking Cloud
THE COURT: Call your next witness then.
MR. MANDEL: United States would call Cleo Gates,
called as a witness, being first duly sworn, testified and
said as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MANDEL:
Q. State your name, please?
A. Cleo Gates.
Q. Where do you live?
A. I live in Manderson, South Dakota.
Q. What do you do down there?
A. I work at the school, I am the payroll accountant.
Q. How long have you been working there?
A. About eight years.
Q. You lived on the Pine Ridge Reservation all your life?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. Back in 1975 where were you living?
A. Allen, South Dakota.
Q. Who were you living with at that time?
A. With my husband.
Q. Who was that?
A. Dick Marshal.
Q. How long had the two of you been married?
A. Oh, geez. Probably about six years then.
Q. How long did you remain married?
A. We remained married about four years after that.
Q. Were you living in the housing area there in Allen?
A. Yes, we were.
Q. Was anybody else living in the house with you at that time?
A. Our children.
Q. How many kids did you have back then?
Q. How old?
A. I think eight and five. Eight or nine, something like that.
Q. Was that a period of time when Dick got in to some trouble?
Q. Can you just tell us briefly what kind of trouble he got
involved in at that time?
MR. RENSCH: Objection, relevance and 403, Your
Honor, and can we approach?
THE COURT: You may.
MR. RENSCH: He is going to get in to some matters
where Dick Marshal was charged with murder as result of a
shooting that occurred in the Scenic bar. He defended the
case on the theory of self defense. Our position referring in
any way to the fact that her husband was charged with a murder
would be more prejudicial than probative, and doesn't have any
place, and would make it appear as though this defendant is
going over to a person's house who later was convicted of
murder. From that standpoint it is very prejudicial, I object
THE COURT: What's the relevance, if that is what
you are going in to?
MR. MANDEL: Probably not going to much detail on it
other than that it happened in the same time period, that that
is ultimately why they got divorced, just background.
Frankly, I am not going into the details of the shooting or his --
THE COURT: What does the shooting have to do with anything?
MR. MANDEL: I said I don't intend to go in to anything.
THE COURT: Without going in to it then it is a moot issue.
MR. RENSCH: I am afraid the witness will slip and
say something about that. The way the questions are being
broadly framed she could do that. If the prosecutor could
instruct her not to bring that up, I would appreciate it, and
I would request it.
THE COURT: I think you can frame the questions so
you don't get in to it, alright.
MR. MANDEL: Okay.
(End Bench Conference).
BY MR. MANDEL:
Q. I want to draw your attention to early December to mid
December of 1975. Were you and Dick both together at home at
Q. Do you remember a night when some people came to your house?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Particularly do you remember a night when Anna Mae
Aquash arrived at your house?
A. Yes, they told me that the girl was Anna Mae Aquash.
Q. Prior to that time you didn't know her?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Can you tell us first of all who arrived at your house
and when they arrived?
A. I think it was before midnight, it was after 11:00, we
had gone to bed, and it was Theda Clark, Arlo, and John Boy is
what I knew them by.
Q. Was Theda somebody you had known for a long time?
A. I had known Theda like probably three or four years
Q. What about John Boy?
A. I knew him in passing. I had seen him at different
activities, pow-wow's or whatever, and that's how I knew him.
Q. Do you recognize him seated here in the courtroom today
A. Oh, geez. I don't know, he was a young, really young at the time.
Q. Anyhow, and what about John Boy, how did you know him?
A. I thought you asked me already about John Boy.
Q. I am sorry, Arlo you said?
A. I knew Arlo through my brother. My brother Joe Morgan.
I knew Arlo was from Wounded Knee, about nine miles from where
I live, but I didn't know him growing up, I just knew him from
my brother Joe.
Q. And if I misspoke before, let me ask you, do you
recognize Arlo seated here in the courtroom today?
A. That's Arlo. I recognize Arlo.
Q. Can you tell us where he is seated and what he is wearing?
A. Arlo is seated right there.
MR. MANDEL: I ask the record reflect the witness
pointed to the defendant.
THE COURT: It may.
BY MR. MANDEL:
Q. When they came over what took place?
A. They came in and they brought the girl in, and she sat
on the chair in the living room, and they went into the
bedroom with my husband.
Q. They meaning who?
A. Arlo, John and Theda.
Q. Anna Mae stayed out with you?
A. Yes, she did.
Q. Can you tell us anything about what you noticed about
her at that time?
A. Well, she was real quiet. I asked her if she wanted
coffee, because we, there was food and I thought maybe she
might be hungry. She had a cup of coffee I think, and she
might have ate a donut and that was it, and she didn't offer
any conversation. Actually I didn't know her, so I wasn't
really sure what to say to her myself.
Q. Did you notice what she was wearing?
A. It was cold out and she had a jacket on and I would say
it was like a knee length, it was a light colored jacket, but
I didn't notice the clothing that she was wearing.
Q. I am going to show you what's been marked Exhibit 4 and
ask you to take a look at that. Are you able to recognize any
of her clothing in that photograph?
A. No, I don't.
Q. You just don't recall?
A. She doesn't have the jacket on. It was like a warm
jacket that she had on, a heavy jacket.
Q. Was there some request made of you and Dick that evening
by these people?
A. Well, they came in and they went, they came out of the
bedroom and called me in the kitchen and he said they want us
to keep her here.
Q. Who said that?
A. Dick. I said what for? I don't know, just keep her
here. And I said no.
Q. You refused to allow them to do that?
Q. How come?
A. Because I had, this was Anna Mae, and I had heard just
different things going on on the reservation, and I didn't
want to be any part of it.
Q. What kind of different things were you aware of?
A. Well, people were saying that Anna Mae was an informer.
I never knew her myself, so I didn't, wasn't sure. So I just
told Dick no, I said I don't think we should.
Q. Were you and Dick both AIM members at the time?
A. Yes, we were.
Q. What happened when you refused to keep her there?
A. Dick went back and told them and they left. They
weren't there very long.
Q. About how long altogether?
A. I would say maybe a half hour maybe.
Q. They say anything about where they were going?
A. No, they didn't, not to me.
MR. MANDEL: No further questions. Your Honor.
THE COURT: You may cross examine.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. RENSCH:
Q. Morning, Ma'am.
A. Good morning.
Q. You knew Theda before that date, did you not?
A. Yeah, I knew Theda, who she was.
Q. I think you testified at your grand jury she was kind of pushy?
A. Theda was that type of person.
Q. How so?
A. They didn't want me to go in the bedroom with them, they
just took Dick.
Q. I am talking how is she a pushy person?
A. Just takes control of the situation.
Q. About that time how old did she appear to be, thirties,
A. Probably forties, fifties. Close to fifty maybe.
Q. She was older than the others that were with her?
A. Right, much older.
Q. Was there a phone at your residence in '75?
A. Yes, we had a phone.
Q. Did Ms. Pictou-Aquash ask to use your phone?
A. No, she didn't.
Q. If she would have asked, would you have let her?
A. I think I would have.
Q. So there was a period of time when you were out in your
living room or kitchen area alone with Ms. Pictou-Aquash?
Q. About how long would you say that was?
A. Probably five minutes maybe.
Q. Cars outside the house?
A. You know, I didn't look out.
Q. Did you folks have a car then?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. Did the people who came in give you any indication that
they had walked?
A. No, they didn't.
Q. And no one was standing guard over Ms. Pictou-Aquash as
she was with you?
A. No, they weren't.
Q. You never dreamed that when she left that house anything
bad would happen to her, did you?
A. No, I didn't, sir.
Q. If you would have thought something bad was going to
happen, would you have tried to help her?
A. I think I would have.
MR. RENSCH: Thank you.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MANDEL:
Q. You said you weren't allowed to go back in the bedroom
when they were there?
A. Well, they said stay out here, they took Dick back there.
Q. Do you know, did your husband Dick give them anything
when they were back in that bedroom?
A. I don't think he did.
Q. Did he keep any guns in that bedroom?
A. No. At the time he had, he had gotten in trouble and
wasn't allowed to have any kind of guns. He was on release
before his trial.
MR. RENSCH: Okay -- well --
BY MR. MANDEL:
Q. Had he had guns in the past?
A. We had a rifle, hunting rifles, but he had taken
everything over to his dad's, mother and dad's place.
MR. MANDEL: Nothing further, Your Honor.
MR. RENSCH: No questions.
THE COURT: Thank you. You may step down. Now we
will take our morning recess. Remember what I told you
before, don't talk to each other about the case, keep an open
mind until you have heard all of the evidence. We will be in
recess for fifteen minutes.
(Recess at 10:30 until 10:45).